It's virtual impossibly. If virtual particles can come from nothing, does that mean that something can actually come from nothing? Imagination allows that to be possible. While the question seemed all-important and pertinent to the ancients, what we now know about the nature of the universe renders it obsolete. If it were, it would cease to be nothing and become something. Lear: "Nothing can come of nothing: speak again." When this question is asked it is usually in regard to the origin of our universe. For one thing, this discovery has produced remarkable new support for the idea that our universe arose from precisely nothing. Plants grew, adapted, and expanded just like humans do on earth. Can Something Come From Nothing? When scientists say that the universe can simply come out of nothing without any divine intervention, they think of the universe in terms of its energy content only. Lawrence M. Krauss is a renowned cosmologist and professor of the School of Earth and Space Exploration at Arizona State University_._ He is the author of numerous articles and books, including the best-selling _The Physics of Star Trek_ and _A Universe from Nothing_ that includes an Afterword from atheist provocateur Richard Dawkins_._ Krauss is an outspoken atheist, evolutionist, and anti-Christian. “Something Good” from The Sound of Music (1965). Another point that can be brought up is that if one wishes to state as fact that “Something cannot come from nothing,” they must actually prove this to be the case, the Burden of Proof lies on the one making the claim. Given the First Law of Thermodynamics: that you can't get something from nothing. Well nothing, because nothing cannot stop anything because it is… nothing. But there is a more interesting and complicated problem, which sheds light on further issues with the concept of nothing, but to get there we need to take a trip back in time to the Presocratics and the dawn of Natural Science. “Nothing comes from Nothing”, this is a statement many Christians make to prove that God exists. Posted by: mjswift. We now have two competing schools of thought, those following the Eleatic School and those Atomists who don’t at all agree. What is the void? The issue as you can see is that, in the end, the concept of nothing seems to be self-defeating in these contexts. The books goes through the big bang and many other cosmological aspects that will enrich your understanding of the known universe. What if mankind developed for a million years and became so smart that we would essentially be Gods. I was searching for an old copy of a popular science magazine that had a small sentence in a history of 20th century scientists article. Great Debates. No one has ever seen a law of physics. A vacuum might seem like empty space, but scientists have discovered a new way to seemingly get something from that nothingness, such as light. Dr. Krauss is engaged in some evolutionary sleight of hand. Something can’t come from nothing. Something came from nothing due to god leads directly into the question Where did god come from. 1. The following is from the Preface to his book: In the interests of full disclosure right at the outset I must admit that I am not sympathetic to the conviction that creation requires a creator, which is at the basis of all the world’s religions. An idea can come from nothing. Q: “How can something come from nothing?” …Let’s see! Through mathematics and indirect observation of quantum fluctuations, scientists can now make the case that our universe did indeed come into existence out of what people call, “nothing.” Now most people’s problem with this astonishing discovery comes from the use of this word, “nothing.” Nothing is a human concept for even the "emptiness" of space we have found something. No, only God, and my God at that. It is a theistic answer to the question of how the universe comes to exist. … The first version of this article, which I wrote all the way back in 1997, merely compiled a list of quotes from physicists affirming that something can indeed come from nothing through entirely natural processes, and that the entire universe might be one such thing. He must steal that energy from the theistic power plant that he ridicules, misrepresents, and claims it doesn’t exist. What does this mean? Nothing comes from nothing,Nothing ever could. where nothing can be added or subtracted from the 'specimen'. A vacuum might seem like empty space, but scientists have discovered a new way to seemingly get something from that nothingness, such as light. So I will first try and portray it with a Proof (think Geometry) and then write out for those who hated high school logic puzzles. "Nothing" is not a type alternate reality. The Reification fallacy is basically when someone treats a hypothetical as though it were real. "Nothing" is not a type alternate reality. As Wigner wrote, “the enormous usefulness of mathematics in the natural sciences is something bordering on the mysterious and there is no rational explanation for it.”, In other words, as I argue in my book [God? But if something exists, then it must be made of atoms. Some evolutionists and non-religionists like physicist Max Tegmark ((Max Tegmark, Our Mathematical Universe: My Quest for the Ultimate Nature of Reality Paperback (New York: Vintage Books, 2015), 5.)) After all, they ask, “How can something come from nothing?” One such religious notion is the story of creation: once upon a time there was nothing, and then, miraculously, there was something. The foundational points we can establish thus far are the following: 1. For all anyone can tell, it is possible for something to come from nothing. It’s not an understatement to say that the discovery has changed the playing field of modern cosmology. Absolute nothingness cannot produce something given endless time—in fact, there can be no time in absolute nothingness.” ((Abraham Varghese, “The ‘New Atheism’: A Critical Appraisal of Dawkins, Dennett, Wolpert, Harris, and Stenger,” in Anthony Flew with Abraham Varghese, There is a God: How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind (New York: HarperCollins, 2007), 170.)). These guys have come up with the first rigorous proof that the Big Bang could indeed have occurred spontaneously because of quantum fluctuations. While the question seemed all-important and pertinent to the ancients, what we now know about the nature of the universe renders it obsolete. We can custom-write anything as well! One cannot get a something from a nothing. A vacuum is a balanced combination of matter and antimatter, or particles and antiparticles. True, there certainly is no evidence that something can come from nothing, so we must either appeal to some logical argument, or we must appeal to some faith-claim or revelatory insight. If 'something' can come from nothing, then you would have to accept the fact that there are actually 2 states of nothing, one that supports the creation of 'something' and another that doesn't. And to go from that next halfway point to the destination you must again go half way. First, there is the issue that they must prove that something cannot come from nothing. I'm skipping some crucial steps here, but that is the gist of it. Any answer that solves this problem for god can probably also just … Logic, real logic, alone cannot tell us whether something can come from nothing or not, just like it couldn't tell us if the orbits of the planets are perfect spheres or if the sun orbits the earth. But is that the only possibility? And to get from the halfway point to the destination you must go half way. Here is this common misconception in a nutshell: “The universe couldn’t have possibly popped into existence out of nothing.” Quantum Physics is, in a way, the new kid on the block. Otherwise its an endless conundrum of what came first, the chicken or the egg. I actually have a theory about this that, as far as I can tell, explains the actual creation of all existence from absolute ubiquitous nothingness. Thus, they argued that a void of non-existence had to be present in order for there to be a space for atoms to move into. God did design the material (and everything else) that makes up snowflakes and the process by which they form. In the end, the curse that Zeno and Parmenides plagued us with remains: motion is impossible, because between any two points there are an infinite number of atoms (thank goodness for Limitations and Calculus). Yes No Multiple votes are allowed. Can Something Come From Nothing? Read "Can Something Come From Nothing Critical Thinkings and other exceptional papers on every subject and topic college can throw at you. So now we have established that something can come from nothing. One of the most fundamental questions of all time nicely dealt with by the guys on the Atheist Experience. The beauty of Tryon’s suggestion is that the properties of this vacuum state can be calculated, so the question of how “nothing” became … Well, before you click away, we only have one half of this issue at hand, as we have yet to consider Democritus’ side of this story (and then we will see how they conflict). P1) If A1 and A2 are separated by B then B = E (see above converse issue if false), P2) If B = E then B =/= N therefore B =/= NE, P3) If B =/= NE, and N = NE then N cannot be between A1 and A2, P4) Therefore between all A there must be E. In English, a similar issue to the problem of Bisection will occur, wherein between every atom is another atom, since all things that exist are made of atoms, and in order for atoms to be separated there must be something that exists which separates them (otherwise they couldn’t be separate). Depends on how you define "nothing". There are numerous issues that one would then encounter, because there is no logical reason why something cannot come from nothing (the absence of existence). It is quite possible that this statement is false, but it also can be true, and we are not able to … There are two ways in which one can go about dismissing the idea of “nothing” in regards to Democritus’ theory. The fact that there is a difference, proves that 'something' has to have come from 'something'. If you can't get something from nothing, then why do you think you can go on to argue the next step? Report Post . And if you wish to show that something may in fact come from this nothing, you can simply indicate that if there is nothing, then there is nothing to prevent something from coming into existence, and if you want to talk about the idea of nothing being nonsensical (even though it still is logically possible) you can simply turn to the ancient works of old, where they showed that proposing nothing within the scope of things which exist becomes entirely problematic, and then you can go from there. And if some things can appear out of nothing then why can't the universe or God for that matter had come from nothing? It is associated with ancient Greek cosmology, such as is presented not just in the works of Homer and Hesiod, but also in virtually every internal system: there is no break in-between a world that did not exist and one that did, since it could not be created ex nihilo in the first place. ((Lawrence M. Krauss, A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather Than Nothing (New York: Free Press, 2012), xiii.)). Eric from Mesa Arizona calls in to challenge Matt to a debate. “Something can’t come from nothing, so their must be a God” (cosmological, or First Cause, argument) is not only a non sequitur when defending ones religious claims, it is also not a very good argument on its own merit. Creatio ex nihilo (Latin for "creation out of nothing") refers to the belief that matter is not eternal but had to be created by some divine creative act, frequently defined as God. When put in a modern context, like discussing the Big Bang and “Something coming from nothing,” YEC’s will have numerous issues trying to use this concept. The something from nothing hypothesis is illogical, unscientific, and faith-based. He first states, "The idea that 'only nothing can come from nothing' is a rule. ((“Something Good” from The Sound of Music (1965). Very Probably: Five Rational Ways to Think about the Question of a God], it takes the existence of some kind of a god to make the mathematical underpinnings of the universe comprehensible. It is a theistic answer to the question of how the universe comes to exist. Can virtual particles come from nothing? ((Krauss, A Universe from Nothing, xiii.)). He goes on to claim that “every day beautiful and miraculous objects suddenly appear.” Krauss mentions “miracles,” and Richard Dawkins, who wrote the Afterword to Krauss’ book and heaps abundant praise upon it, describes evolution as “magic” in his own book The Magic of Reality: How We Know What’s Really True. They couldn’t because all of space would be filled. This is particularly true when discussing the concept of nothing, and what ends up being caught is that because of the limitations of language, we always talk about things as though they are objects. But the question came up: What is between these atoms? The theistic argument simply put is that everything has to have a cause, (something can not come from nothing) so therefore the universe had to have a cause, and that cause is god. It seems that religious people are trying to hijack a “reasoning” or “scientific” method of approaching the argument, and it just doesn’t work. To most people, the claim that something cannot come from nothing is a truism. "In Stephen Hawking’s new book The Grand Design, he says that because of the law of gravity, the universe can and will create itself out of nothing. But the physicists argue that it follows naturally from science's two most powerful and successful theories: quantum mechanics and general relativity. I hope you enjoyed the (very long) collaboration today. It feels about time that age-old question “why is there something rather than nothing?” should notice it’s old age and finally die off. Man created the gods to ease their insecurity with their ignorance of … Does this mean that love, compassion, morality, and a whole host of human emotions are nothing but mathematics? [ ↩] Nothing comes from nothing, Nothing ever could. Many scientists assume that the universe came from nothing, which is an idea that can only be true in light of quantum theory. Like Reply Challenge. Can Something Come from Nothing? It is impossible to get from one point to another, because the distance can be infinitely divided in half, meaning any distance between two points is infinite. Something came from nothing due to god leads directly into the question Where did god come from. It is the be all and end all of existence. Special pleading at its best. For example, if we were to put existence and nonexistence in complementary sets, linguistically we treat them as both existing. Anyway, recently i have started to believe in a creator again as i have found no other explanation for our existence? Then we could go back in time (because we’re super smart and can do that) and create the universe. I stand on the shoulders of Maxwell.’”, Maxwell’s work in the field of mathematical physics led to the invention of television, mobile phones, microwaves, and nuclear energy. Am I being ignorant here or can something come from nothing? All you need is an ultra-high-intensity laser, a … And this problem goes on infinitely. In conclusion, something could come from nothing but equally not become at all. Now this is where things get more interesting. There simply never has been nothing. Well it was essentially what is called the Void. Concluding this, you can rest assured that even if you accept a definition of nothing as being “the absence of everything,” there is still no reason that something cannot come from nothing, and so it is on the shoulders of the YEC to state that something cannot come from nothing. As argued by scholars such as Philip Davis and Reuben Hersh, mathematics exists independent of physical reality. Evolutionists must believe in “miracles” and “magic.” An evolutionist like Krauss can’t explain how the world works except to descend into irrationality. Results are only viewable after voting. Can Something Come From Nothing? Something is something and nothing is nothing and to think otherwise is nonsense! I was an atheist for about two years and have read the God delusion and i used to be a Catholic. Creation ex nihilo - without God (1997) (Updated 2011) Mark I. Vuletic . Nothing comes from nothing is a philosophical dictum first argued by Parmenides. Democritus proposed that all things in the universe, all that exists, are made up of an indivisibly small particle which he called the Atom. … Despite the many other enormous advances of modern physics, little has changed in this regard. In English, this means that if there is nonexistence (nothing) between two atoms, then logically those two atoms must be touching, as there is nothing separating them. It can't account for anything since anything is something and something does not appear spontaneously from nothing. With science, a cell divides from another cell. The beauty of Tryon’s suggestion is that the properties of this vacuum state can be calculated, so the question of how “nothing” became “something” was opened up. Can something come from nothing? However, most physicists disagree. The idea isn't a rule, but a description. The creation of such particles is therefore never “out of nothing”—it is out of a preexisting space that is filled with energy. It’s a catch-22. A common argument from atheists and skeptics is that if all things need a cause, then God must also need a cause. It is another way of saying there are no laws and nothing upon which actions could even take place. I am sorry to say that the Eleatic School has the far more convincing argument in this context. What is there to stop something from popping into existence? Believe it or not there are some atheists who actually think nothing can do something. Krauss has stated that “Science is only truly consistent with an atheistic worldview…” I’m sure Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Johannes Kepler, Joseph Lister, James Young Simpson, Samuel F.B. How does a materialist like Krauss account for non-physical entities like mathematics and physics in a cosmos that seemingly came into existence out of nothing and continues to operate in terms of fixed and predictable laws? A = Atom(s) used with numbers to differentiate, P2) If B = N then NE is between A1 and A2, P3) If NE is between A1 and A2 then A1 and A2 cannot be separated as there is no E to separate them. In the end, this would further prove the views of Parmenides and Zeno, that movement is impossible, since if there is an infinite number of atoms between point 1 and 2, then you could never traverse them, because you could infinitely bisect the number of atoms that separate 1 from 2. First, that’s a great Sci-Fi book concept, and I thought of it. From the scientific definition, something MUST come from nothing based on quantum theory. My father who is a mechanical engineer seems to think that something cannot come from nothing but I think that he is wrong because my father evidently never heard of virtual particles and quantum field theory. You want to see a scientist, who doesn't believe in the existence of God, unravel and come unglued in front of your eyes??? And if we can say that the universe can come from nothing, then we have solved one of the oldest philosophical problems there is. Every day beautiful and miraculous objects suddenly appear, from snowflakes on a cold winter morning to vibrant rainbows after a late-afternoon summer shower. Page 2 of 2 < Prev 1 2. There is no "nothing" in space and never was. Clearly not everything touches everything else, so what is it that is between these atoms? Ok, where did God come from? This is the Reification fallacy, which I fell prey to while formulating my positions on this, in fact. I don’t know of a single “fundamentalist” who has ever claimed that God designs every snowflake. The last issue that we must then discuss in regards to both YEC’s and Atheists/Agnostics (insert label here) is the issue of turning the Philosophical Nothing into Something. And ironically, the laws of physics actually have been proven to exist now, whereas no God ever has. Lyrics by Richard Rodgers. Otherwise its an endless conundrum of what came first, the chicken or the egg. ((Robert H. Helson, “Existence of God: The Rational Arguments from Mathematics to Human Consciousness,” Independent (May 17, 2017): http://bit.ly/2w1Fcli)). Dr. Krauss has not explained how the water came into existence to make the snowflake or the informational structure that constitutes the substance we call water to explain how it always reacts the same way to temperature variations and predictable weather conditions. Plants grew, adapted, and expanded just like humans do on earth. In fact, the word "nothing" can be broken apart to show that it means "no-thing." “Something can’t come from nothing, so their must be a God” (cosmological, or First Cause, argument) is not only a non sequitur when defending ones religious claims, it is also not a very good argument on its own merit. Therefore, atoms are between atoms, which have more atoms between those atoms, and so on. 2. Have you ever heard the phrase, “Something cannot come from Nothing,” before? Thanks Together with various other more technical properties, this led Tryon to suggest that the universe was created from nothing or, more precisely, what physicists call the vacuum state. Dec 2, 2011 #21. So now we have established that something can come from nothing. From the Philosophical definition, no, but "nothing" can't be shown to ever have existed, so it's a moot point. These particles have tremendous density but we cannot observe them, for their observable characteristics cancel each other out. Like a potter who needs his tools and clay, you can’t create something if there is nothing. 2. If nothing comes from nothing then even God had to have something to start with! Virtual particles are often cited as evidence that things can come into existence from nothing, since they pop into existence out of the quantum vacuum. But if we graciously allow that something is nothing, in the same sort of way every child wins a trophy for participation, than we can say a universe can come from nothing. Atomists (like Democritus) believed that motion was possible. "Something cannot come from nothing" implies that we know what "nothing" is, but we apparently do not. The beginning and end links to the end and beginning. Second, they have to distinguish if they mean Scientific Nothing (which is still very much something, read Lawrence Krauss if you don’t believe me), or Philosophical Nothing (the absence of existence). The Universe Created Itself. Where did all the stuff in the universe come from and how is it still a law if it was once broken? Young Earth Creationists). That's something; that's not nothing." So, let’s looks at the options of how something can come from nothing. Where did that first cell come from? Why couldn’t there always have been something? 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